Possible Shitstorm

[stubbyc]

Having all sorts of problems with the link.

Just go to The Link and look for the Clemens article.

[Alkie]

Well, shit.

Nice timing on the article.  Can't say I'm the least bit surprised about Rocket, AP is a small surprise.  

If I'm learning anything, it's that anyone who makes it in pro sports is probably on roids.

[Noe in Austin]

 Clemens and Pettitte implicated in drug scandal

Fixed it.

[Texifornia]

Actually the article says RC & AP were using "athletic performance enhancing drugs" while saying others used "steroids".

I have no fucking idea if that means anything.

[Alkie]

You wanna split hairs, go ahead.  

Sad fact is...if you wanna make it in pro sports, you probably gotta cheat.

[Noe in Austin]

Quote:
Well, shit.

Nice timing on the article.  Can't say I'm the least bit surprised about Rocket, AP is a small surprise.  

If I'm learning anything, it's that anyone who makes it in pro sports is probably on roids.

Didn't say Clemens and Pettitte took 'roids.  It said that the Oriole players did:

Quote:
According to the affidavit, Grimsley told investigators that Clemens and Pettitte "used athletic performance-enhancing drugs." He also said Tejada, Roberts and Gibbons used anabolic steroids.

I'm not sure why the distinction, but *greenies* (amphetamines) are athletic performance enhancers.  Pete Rose took them like Flintstones vitamins.

[Noe in Austin]

Quote:
You wanna split hairs, go ahead.  

Sad fact is...if you wanna make it in pro sports, you probably gotta cheat.

It's called beating the grind.  Most pitchers will ask their infielders and outfielders if they're "up" for the game in the clubhouse.  Usually that is codespeak for "if you're not energized to play on your own, then a greenie is what you should take to get up!".

That is more rampant than 'roids and the MLB has been turning a blind eye towards *greenies* for a very long time now.

[Alkie]

Again, you wanna split hairs, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

[Noe in Austin]

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Again, you wanna split hairs, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

Both are banned substances by the MLB.  Does that make you feel better?

[johnstros]

what did mcgwire take?  amphetamines, but were those also considered greenies?  i forgot the name but they are banned now no?

[Alkie]

Quote:
It's called beating the grind.  Most pitchers will ask their infielders and outfielders if they're "up" for the game in the clubhouse.  Usually that is codespeak for "if you're not energized to play on your own, then a greenie is what you should take to get up!".

That is more rampant than 'roids and the MLB has been turning a blind eye towards *greenies* for a very long time now.

Oh, I TOTALLY agree.  Call it what you want.  What I'm saying is: it's goddamn hard to do what these guys "do."  I think I'd be on amps too if I had to play 162 a year with the travel and shit.  But don't tell me it's not the norm (you didn't) or that it isn't a major problem (again, you didn't say that).

But I don't think Grimsley was saying Rocket and AP were amped up.  I have a feeling most MLB players are.  I think he was talking about something else.

[Savage]

Quote:

Quote:
Well, shit.

Nice timing on the article.  Can't say I'm the least bit surprised about Rocket, AP is a small surprise.  

If I'm learning anything, it's that anyone who makes it in pro sports is probably on roids.

Didn't say Clemens and Pettitte took 'roids.  It said that the Oriole players did:

Quote:
According to the affidavit, Grimsley told investigators that Clemens and Pettitte "used athletic performance-enhancing drugs." He also said Tejada, Roberts and Gibbons used anabolic steroids.

I'm not sure why the distinction, but *greenies* (amphetamines) are athletic performance enhancers.  Pete Rose took them like Flintstones vitamins.

I doubt it's greenies.  I believe the other performance engancing drug that was part of the scandal was HGH.

[Alkie]

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Again, you wanna split hairs, go nuts if it makes you feel better.

Both are banned substances by the MLB.  Does that make you feel better?

Not in the least.  

It doesn't change the fact that it's a major league problem.

And I don't know why I justify it this way, but I don't have NEARLY the problem with amps as I do with roids.  I think a lot of it is..if I sat down and thought it out and decided that everyone in baseball was a lyin', cheatin' piece of shit, I'd try to convince myself not to be a baseball fan anymore.

And I don't want to come to that conclusion.

[Noe in Austin]

Quote:
what did mcgwire take?  amphetamines, but were those also considered greenies?  i forgot the name but they are banned now no?

Andro.

Androstyene, to be exact or something similar to that... by the way, Jeff Bagwell used Andro as well... you could get it over the counter at a health and nutrition store at one time.  It was not illegal back then, it is now.

[Noe in Austin]

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I doubt it's greenies.  I believe the other performance engancing drug that was part of the scandal was HGH.

That is a hormone and what Grimsley was injecting himself with when he was in Arizona and got caught.  It isn't a steriod as much as a hormone to allow your body to bounce back quicker from rigourous training and of course the pounding you take on the field.  However, it's not like as a starter you kill yourself everyday playing baseball.  You pitch every five days.  But both Pettitte and Clemens do have a training regime that is an everyday occurence.

Whatever it may be, seems they made a distinction between steriods and whatever Clemens and Pettitte were alegeded to take.  Hormones or greenies at this point, but not anabolic steroids.

[JimR]

no doubt in my mind that Clemens took something. his body changed too much. i'll be shocked if AP did.

greenies are different banned substances. they were rampant at one time, and i'll bet that many, many more did than didn't.

[Fredia]

on the body change thing. they showed him after each of his 20 strike out games. i almost did not recgonize the pictures of him after his first one. it was not just age it was body type too. i have mixed feelings about it.if this all does come out i guess there will be no comeback tour out of retirement last time next year

[juliogotay]

I think you hit on the biggest aspect for the Astros. Will this news make it easier for both pitchers to retire? Will there even be pressure from the Commissioners office for them not to return? What about the HOF for Clemens? There has definitely been chatter that writers would not vote for McGwire and Palmeiro because of the issue. Is Clemens above that? Personally I don't think there is anything that will keep Clemens out of the Hall 5 years after. But be ready for the talking heads to discuss it.

[Reuben]

 

Quote:
I think a lot of it is..if I sat down and thought it out and decided that everyone in baseball was a lyin', cheatin' piece of shit, I'd try to convince myself not to be a baseball fan anymore.

And I don't want to come to that conclusion.
 

I can absolutely relate to that feeling. Each time new "revalations" come out, I find myself very skeptical of their veracity - partly because you can't believe everything you read or hear, but partly because I simply don't want to discover that 90% of players were on 'roids or HGH.

[Sphinx Drummond]

Quote:

Quote:
I think a lot of it is..if I sat down and thought it out and decided that everyone in baseball was a lyin', cheatin' piece of shit, I'd try to convince myself not to be a baseball fan anymore.

And I don't want to come to that conclusion.
 

I can absolutely relate to that feeling. Each time new "revalations" come out, I find myself very skeptical of their veracity - partly because you can't believe everything you read or hear, but partly because I simply don't want to discover that 90% of players were on 'roids or HGH.

Canseco never said anything 'til he had a book to sell and an axe to grind. A lot of players have written books and thousands probably feel they got screwed over (real or imagined) and yet they kept the secret. That's some code of omerta.