Gammons: Bagwell deserves Hall of Fame call

[Reuben]

Going back to the Bagwell Cooperstown topic, what is the over under on the Vote percentage Bagwell gets this year?   If he fails to go from 41.7% up to 50% this year in a weak freshman class, does that tilt the scales against him getting in via the writers vote?

For what it's worth, there hasn't been a single player who received at least 41.7% of the vote in year one go 0-for-15 in writers' voting.

Well, if he's going to have a shot at making it in 2013 as part of a Biggio/Bagwell sentimentality vote, he's probably gonna need to get somewhere in the 50-60% range this year.

[Houston]

I really hope Bagwell gets voted in this time around. The Biggio-Bagwell sentimentality is interesting, but it won't mean much to voters in other parts of the country when he's going against these classes in the next two years:

2013: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa
2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas

[Andyzipp]

I really hope Bagwell gets voted in this time around. The Biggio-Bagwell sentimentality is interesting, but it won't mean much to voters in other parts of the country when he's going against these classes in the next two years:

2013: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa
2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but Bonds, Clemens and Sosa will not be voted in during the 2013 vote.

[Ebby Calvin]

I'm not saying it's right, and I'm not saying I agree with it, but Bonds, Clemens and Sosa will not be voted in during the 2013 vote.

Agree with this.

[Reuben]

I really hope Bagwell gets voted in this time around. The Biggio-Bagwell sentimentality is interesting, but it won't mean much to voters in other parts of the country when he's going against these classes in the next two years:

2013: Craig Biggio, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Mike Piazza, Curt Schilling, Sammy Sosa
2014: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas

Wow, I didn't realize 2014 was that strong. Rogers of course will never come close, but I think chances are pretty good Glavine, Maddux, Kent, and Thomas all go in that year. Mussina may or may not be a HOF, so he probably doesn't have a shot the first year at least. Same with Schilling in 2013, so maybe that allows Bagwell a chance to go in with Biggio and Piazza (unless the voters do him like they did Bagwell).

[hostros7]

Wow, I didn't realize 2014 was that strong. Rogers of course will never come close, but I think chances are pretty good Glavine, Maddux, Kent, and Thomas all go in that year. Mussina may or may not be a HOF, so he probably doesn't have a shot the first year at least. Same with Schilling in 2013, so maybe that allows Bagwell a chance to go in with Biggio and Piazza (unless the voters do him like they did Bagwell).

The argument for Frank Thomas as a first ballot HoFer, juxtaposed against hand-wringing over Bagwell ever being voted in by the writers, is somewhat lost on me. 

[Reuben]

The argument for Frank Thomas as a first ballot HoFer, juxtaposed against hand-wringing over Bagwell ever being voted in by the writers, is somewhat lost on me. 

I know, but most writers seem to have always assumed that Thomas was clean, just like they always assumed Griffey was. It probably helps that Thomas was always built like the child of Shaq and Refridgerator Perry. Bagwell, however, didn't spring from Zeus' head at birth as a fully-formed, jacked homer-mashing dude, so, you know, "he must be guilty".

[HudsonHawk]

Wow, I didn't realize 2014 was that strong. Rogers of course will never come close, but I think chances are pretty good Glavine, Maddux, Kent, and Thomas all go in that year. Mussina may or may not be a HOF, so he probably doesn't have a shot the first year at least. Same with Schilling in 2013, so maybe that allows Bagwell a chance to go in with Biggio and Piazza (unless the voters do him like they did Bagwell).

I like Schilling as much as the next guy.  But he's in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

[roadrunner]

I like Schilling as much as the next guy.  But he's in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

Does "the next guy" really like him?  I can't stand him and didn't think anyone could.

[austro]

I like Schilling as much as the next guy.  But he's in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

But he pitched with a bloody sock! For Boston!

[HudsonHawk]

Does "the next guy" really like him?  I can't stand him and didn't think anyone could.

Probably not.  He's a first class prick.  So let me rephrase...I think Schilling was a fine pitcher.  But he's in no way shape or form a Hall of Famer.

[HudsonHawk]

But he pitched with a bloody sock! For Boston!

If Schilling gets in the HOF, Jack Morris should go to his house and chew on his ankles until he bleeds again.

[Ron Brand]

I like Schilling as much as the next guy.  But he's in no way, shape or form a Hall of Famer.

I feel this way too. 216 wins? Only won 20 three times? Yet by the metrics, he's in the middle of the pack for a HOF pitcher.

And then there's this.

Will Schilling and Smoltz make it? Schilling's a mortal lock. Baseball history is littered with examples of players who ride postseason success into Cooperstown.

Schilling's not nearly as questionable a candidate. His biggest critic might hold his lack of a Cy Young award against him. But James' Black Ink test, which adds up the number of times a player has led the league in key categories, has Schilling meeting the standards for an average Hall of Famer. The Gray Ink test, which expands to top-10 finishes in major statistical categories, gives Schilling the nod, too. Add in his career and peak numbers and his playoff accomplishments, and he's a deserving candidate. He'll make it, with ease.

[PeteM]

I feel this way too. 216 wins? Only won 20 three times? Yet by the metrics, he's in the middle of the pack for a HOF pitcher.

And then there's this.

And 20 years from now when people look at the members of the Hall, they'll see Schilling's name and say "Who...?"

[HudsonHawk]

I feel this way too. 216 wins? Only won 20 three times? Yet by the metrics, he's in the middle of the pack for a HOF pitcher.

And then there's this.

I think in general, the BBWAA does a pretty good job of electing HOFers.  But if they put in Schilling and leave out Morris, they're just idiots.  Like John P. Lopez kind of idiots.

[Andyzipp]

I feel this way too. 216 wins? Only won 20 three times? Yet by the metrics, he's in the middle of the pack for a HOF pitcher.

And then there's this.

Even though he may statistically be in the qualified, and even though he was never accused, I suspect he was juicing and will not vote for him.  #unsubstantiatedrumor

[Bench]

Even though he may statistically be in the qualified, and even though he was never accused, I suspect he was juicing and will not vote for him.  #unsubstantiatedrumor

I think his anger issues and the fact that he wasn't fazed by a bloody ankle confirm that he was a steroid user... or worse.

[JimR]

I think his anger issues and the fact that he wasn't fazed by a bloody ankle confirm that he was a steroid user... or worse.

so, you think it is impossible to tough it through pain without steroids?

[EasTexAstro]

I think his anger issues and the fact that he wasn't fazed by a bloody ankle confirm that he was a steroid user... or worse.

I can't speak for Schilling's use or non-use, but I know you don't have to be on drugs to keep performing your job with an injury, or have anger issues.

[moriartp]

I think his anger issues and the fact that he wasn't fazed by a bloody ankle confirm that he was a steroid user... or worse.

Cyborg?