Roy O to Phillies

[OregonStrosFan]

They have to at least get an offer worth more than a first round pick + a sandwich pick in next year's draft right?

Seems like they can win whether they trade him or not.

Myers is NOT going to be a Type-A free agent at the end of the year... [\bangs-head-against-wall-again]

I'm starting to come around on the possibility of him becoming a Type-B free agent though : Elais progressions: May 16 (Myers = 46.380, Type B cutoff = 59.690, Type A cutoff = 70.875); June 21 (Myers = 49.272, Type B Cutoff = 56.311, Type A cutoff = 69.981); and July 25 (Myers = 56.463, Type B cutoff = 58.673, Type A cutoff = 71.514)

[Arky Vaughan]

Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?

[Lurch]

But this ignores what effect the $11 million had on the players they were getting or not getting. This assumes that the $11 million had to be part of the deal. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but for that kind of money, I would think their bargaining power might've been better.

"The Astros seemed set to send about $11 million to the Phillies as part of the deal. Amaro declined to specify the amount.

"That was an important part of this," Amaro said. "We wanted to keep some level of flexibility so we can continue to field a championship-caliber team. Yes, the money did make a difference."

Link

[matadorph]

Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?

Perhaps they think they have enough in Overbay and Lind to absorb the loss of their 1b of the future? They clearly like Gose. A lot.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?

Not meaning to be a smartass, but looking at the Jays' roster, I feel significantly better about the Astros roster.  Make of that what you wish, but I concluded that they either see their future much further out OR they are clueless.

[Noe in Austin]

Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?

Toronto traded from what *they* think is a strength to fill a weakness.  That is what they're saying and all along, no one that has had Wallace in their system has said he's a bust waiting to happen.  He's just a great bargaining chip to get what you want.

The Jays might have shipped out a solid first base prospect, but they have a glut of corner outfield/DH-type hitters in Adam Lind, Fred Lewis, Travis Snider, Jose Bautista, and even current center fielder, Vernon Wells.

Wells and his mammoth contract will be around for several more years and both Lewis and Bautista could be kept around at low cost for a few years as well. That would seem to leave Lind and Snider looking for a spot to play and first base might just end up being a home for one of them.

http://bleacherreport.com...prise-trade-deadline-move

The Cardinals traded Wallace because he was never going to see the light of day in the majors behind Pujols.  Seems the Jays were looking for a speedy CF, they found one in prospect Gose, and while we can take *numbers* from a A ball player and make assumptions, it's kind of foolish to do that.  What they're saying is that the kid is a raw 19 year old talent that could turn out to be really good.  In a A ball prospect trade, you have to trust scouts more than stats and the age of 19 is also a factor to trust what you see more than what you read (in a stat).  Houston with Michael Bourn already in the bigs and Jay Austin in the minors did not need Gose.  That was the head scratching that went on, not that Gose was a horrible prospect.  Obviously Houston did their homework (and Ed Wade knows the Phillie minor league system) and he plucked the right guy to flip over to the Jays for a really solid, almost ready for the majors top of the line prospect.

[Noe in Austin]

Perhaps they think they have enough in Overbay and Lind to absorb the loss of their 1b of the future? They clearly like Gose. A lot.

*DING, DING, DING*

[cc]

Toronto traded from what *they* think is a strength to fill a weakness.

Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal.  Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP.  Maybe the Jays have guys like that.  Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.

So it's easy to see this as a win-win.  Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.

[Noe in Austin]

Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal.  Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP.  Maybe the Jays have guys like that.  Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.

So it's easy to see this as a win-win.  Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.

It sells on the concourse, so it's not all the fault of the punditry.  They know their audience.

[jaklewein]

*DING, DING, DING*

I'm guessing that TOR may see Travis Snider as a player that might fall into that group as well.

[cc]

It sells on the concourse, so it's not all the fault of the punditry.  They know their audience.

True.  I forgot to add: 30 HR.  Now all this has happened in Las Vegas.  Let's hope *this* doesn't stay in Las Vegas.

[JimR]

Exactly.  

As a bonus, this deal also provides a nice infusion of talent at SS as well.  I'm have no problems with a combo of Hernandez/Sanchez/Manzella holding down the fort for a couple of years until one of Villar, Mier, Player X asserts themselves as a long-term solution.

I can't speak for others, but my goal for 2010 was to make a true commitment to rebuilding by the trade deadline.  

your goal? who the hell are you?

[Noe in Austin]

I'm guessing that TOR may see Travis Snider as a player that might fall into that group as well.

Some Toronto pundits think Snider and Wallace were clones of each other.  Wallace was a luxury in some ways and perhaps his lack of defensive skills made him much more expendable.  Bird in the hand sort of thing.

[Jacksonian]

Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?

He's very athletic, very fast, very good defensively, and has a very strong arm.  He's raw with the bat.  The Jays think that will come, and that he will be a GG centerfielder with high level leadoff skills.  Think Bourn hitting .300 with .390 obp every year.

[hostros7]

Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal.  Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP.  Maybe the Jays have guys like that.  Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.

So it's easy to see this as a win-win.  Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.

Exactly.  The stros have been drafting "toolsy" guys with high ceilings and low floors by virtue of their age.  Gose is another one of those guys.  From what I've read, the Jays have a dearth of those "toolsy" guys.  They traded from a position of perceived strength to fill a perceived weakness, as did the Astros.  Not sure what is hard to get about this (not directed at you CC).  The Jays scouts targeted Gose a long time ago from the feedback on the Halladay post-mortem.  The Astros obviously trust their scouts as well.  Maybe we laymen should give it a try.  I, personally, wouldn't have thought the stros needed to throw in 11 millski for this particular deal but that is what the market dictated.  Maybe the team just really wanted to move on from Roy.  It's done.  Let's wait and see how it plays out.

[JimR]

i am hoping Happ goes 7 tomorrow night. that will shut some of this stuff up.

[Arky Vaughan]

i am hoping Happ goes 7 tomorrow night. that will shut some of this stuff up.

Happ, if healthy, could have nice seasons this year and for years to come. The main question I have is not about Happ or any of the other players, or even about the ability of Wade and the scouts to evaluate them. It's about whether McLane is committed to long-term rebuilding or whether he thinks he can tinker a bit and get back to contention immediately. It's not heresy to question the intentions of an owner who's been known to take his marketing department's advice over that of his trained and experienced baseball men. Whatever Wade does, he has the owner to answer to. Wade can't be held responsible for that.

[Noe in Austin]

Interesting comment from Buster Onley tonight.  Basically, he said the following "There were a lot of teams who, when they heard of the Phillie deal in principle, said "Hey, had we known Oswalt was basically only going to cost 8 million dollars, we would have taken a more serious approach to try and get him".  Okay, several things bothered me about this reporting by Olney:

1. Why are major league organizations getting information about things like this from rumor mills and ESPN reports instead of, you know, actually talking to Houston?
2. Isn't Onley basically saying that all that rumor mongering about Drayton McLane being an owner who will hold out for the other team taking all of Oswalt's contract was false speculation, and of course Onley was part of that whole thing?

In the end, Onley said "No matter what any of those teams say, the Astros worked hard to get a *other* teams to get involved in a trade for Oswalt.  They were the ones who made concessions."

[JimR]

Interesting comment from Buster Onley tonight.  Basically, he said the following "There were a lot of teams who, when they heard of the Phillie deal in principle, said "Hey, had we known Oswalt was basically only going to cost 8 million dollars, we would have taken a more serious approach to try and get him".  Okay, several things bothered me about this reporting by Olney:

1. Why are major league organizations getting information about things like this from rumor mills and ESPN reports?
2. Isn't Onley basically saying that all that rumor mongering about Drayton McLane being an owner who will hold out for the other team taking all of Oswalt's contract was false speculation, and of course Onley was part of that whole thing?

In the end, Onley said "No matter what any of those teams say, the Astros worked hard to get a *other* teams to get involved in a trade for Oswalt.  They were the ones who made concessions."

teams will say anything after the fact.

[Noe in Austin]

teams will say anything after the fact.

Yeah, basically when the report was "... and the Astros kicked in 11 million dollars...", all of a sudden some heads turned right at the direction of those MLB Execs who convinced their people there was no need to deal with the Astros because of McLane.  Those guys had the nerve to tell Onley "Hey, we didn't know!"  Buncha idiots trying to convince themselves they didn't make a mistake to not return Houston's calls.  When the report came out today from Onley that two teams (the Cardinals and Padres) tried to get *serious* about a deal with Houston but it was too late, I just laughed.

Oh, *NOW* you're serious, eh?  The Phillies worked with the Astros, got the concession they needed because Houston is ready to turn the page and this trade reflects that (and I believe another trade will be made by Saturday and yes, I believe Berkman will be gone too).  If teams that are run by professionals can't do the most simplest thing when it comes to talking business, then they have no one to blame but themselves.