Lidge a Phillie

[Arky Vaughan]

Did Bourn play a lot of CF in the minors? or college? He only paid 12 games in CF only 50-some innings. No doubt he will get some looks there and a chance to compete for that spot. He's played more LF than anything else. So, I wouldn't say the Astros are done looking at CFers. They just have another option if they don't land anther CF, and/or they trade off some of the other OF's. If Geary has a year closer to the 2006, he should really help the bullpen. Of course they need a closer now. The Astros also got a 3rd base prospect with some pop.

The Phillies played Aaron Rowand about 95% of the time in center field last year. Bourn got most of the rest of that. You have to look at who else was on the team before you can conclude why someone played at a particular position.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

oh, please--that is such bullshit.

I'll grant you that Brad was also not 100% health-wise in 06 and 07, but do you have another explanation for why his performance trailed off so much during that time period?

[Arky Vaughan]

Yikes. Hope he gets on base in the upper .300s, otherwise they just traded an elite closer for Juan Pierre.

.340 in limited playing time in the majors, .377 in the minors.

[MusicMan]

I'll grant you that Brad was also not 100% health-wise in 06 and 07, but do you have another explanation for why his performance trailed off so much during that time period?

You just gave the first.
Also: mechanics, hitters adjusting, regression to the mean, and quite possibly, luck/BBGs/whatever religion yo subscribe to.

[JimR]

I'll grant you that Brad was also not 100% health-wise in 06 and 07, but do you have another explanation for why his performance trailed off so much during that time period?

left shoulder flying open, as has been discussed around here as early as two years ago. if you buy that psyche bs, my view of you as a serious fan just dropped several notches. not that you care what i think, of course.

[Arky Vaughan]

I would say that Bourn should be viewed as being a Juan Pierre with a good OBP or a Dave Roberts type of player with a few more SB's.

People seem to forget the 2003-2004 Juan Pierre seasons with the Marlins when he posted .361 and .374 OBPs, stole 65 and 45 bases and scored 100 runs each time. I'd be happy to get that from Bourn accompanied by solid defense.

[JackAstro]

People seem to forget the 2003-2004 Juan Pierre seasons with the Marlins when he posted .361 and .374 OBPs, stole 65 and 45 bases and scored 100 runs each time. I'd be happy to get that from Bourn accompanied by solid defense.

I'd be fucking ecstatic.

[Arky Vaughan]

I'll grant you that Brad was also not 100% health-wise in 06 and 07, but do you have another explanation for why his performance trailed off so much during that time period?

Isn't one of the commandments that this topic shall not again be debated on the TZ?

[VirtualBob]

left shoulder flying open, as has been discussed around here as early as two years ago. if you buy that psyche bs, my view of you as a serious fan just dropped several notches. not that you care what i think, of course.

That's cheating, Jim ... you watched him!!  You are supposed to keep your eyes closed and speculate.

[Bench]

Isn't one of the commandments that this topic shall not again be debated on the TZ?

Can't we get into the "his mechanical problems are the result of his fragile psyche" portion of the debate? That's always fun.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Isn't one of the commandments that this topic shall not again be debated on the TZ?

Duly noted.  I still think Philly is going to be a dangerous environment for a career revitalization.  Anybody know anything about the Phils' pitching coaches' ability to help their pitchers identify and correct problems?

[Noe in Austin]

I don't want to be an asshole, but I wonder what all the Phils fans who are currently crowing about their ream having ripped off stupid old Ed Wade will say the first time Lidge surrenders a game-deciding dinger in their bandbox park?  I feel for Lidge as a man, but if you think he's gotten ripped in the media and by fans here, he'll have a much shorter leash there; and if we've learned anything over the past two years, it's that his psyche is his Achilles' heel, not his stuff.   I have no ill will toward Lidge as a person, but this could eat him alive.  For his sake, he should've gone to a small media market where the scrutiny wouldn't have been as intense.

As I've thought some more about Bourn, if he can produce at the plate enough for a OBP somewhere north of .300,  pluss the immense defensive upgrade, that's gotta be worth a win or two in the long run, whether by being on base at the right time, or saving a run from scoring with his quickness. In the Central, 1-2 games could be the difference between the playoffs and golf.

I think Lidge being around Tom Gordon (if he's still in Philly) will help him tremendously.  Gordon is the sort of guy Lidge didn't have to lean on during his worse seasons here.

[JackAstro]

Focus, motherfuckers, focus. Outfield of the future WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!1!!1!!!

[Ty in Tampa]

I lurk at an Eagles/Philly sports board (I know, I love to watch Eagle fans suffer) and their reaction is as mixed as I would expect. They see moving Myers to the rotation as the biggest upgrade. They don't seem to be discounting Lidge's struggles. A few quotes:

"I was iffy on this trade then I remembered Ed Wade was the Astros new GM and now I'm all for it."

"lidge is gonna be a total bust here....he wont be a gas can in that park hell be a refinery...plus hes not exactly the most stable guy mentally...a couple pop ups into the flower bed and he will implode"

Myers the Closer >>> Lidge

It's not like this is exciting, but the team got some possible value from 3 players that no longer had any value to the Phillies.  Myers is capable of being a good starter, which is more than can be said for the gettable FA possibilities.  Etc etc.

They're not going to win the World Series with this move, but it's better than if they still had Geary, Costanzo, and Bourn.


I didn't say they were a stable bunch.

[lc_db]

...  Anybody know anything about the Phils' pitching coaches' ability to help their pitchers identify and correct problems?

What about the player's ability to accept that identification and correct that problem?

[jaklewein]

And now there's more payroll available, and they don't need their 2B to bat leadoff. Castillo and Loretta are both very good, realistic options that can bat 2nd.

Yes, and I'm hoping we go ahead and reach out to Loretta now.  He'll be cheaper and locking him in will fill one more hole and hopefully allow Wade to focus the rest of the '08 budget in the rotation/pen.  While there aren't many SP options available on the FAgent market, I still include it b/c having the money may allow us to make a trade for a higher priced player. 

I read where Wade met with the Whitesox...what might Wade have his eye on?  You think Vasquez/Garland/Contreres would interest? 

[cylima]

http://www.astrosdaily.co...iles/trans/draft2000.html

(Please do not post copyright material without attribution and/or permission)

Astros 2000 draft....

Rnd  Player                          School
 1. Robert Stiehl, C                 El Camino College
 2. Chad Qualls, P                   U of Nevada-Reno
 3. Anthony Pluta, P                 Las Vegas HS, Las Vegas, NV
 4. Eric Keefner, 1B                 De la Salle Institute HS, Chicago, IL
 5. Jacob Whitesides, OF             David Hickman Sr HS, Columbia, MO
 6. Tommy Whiteman, SS               U of Oklahoma
 7. Joe Lydic, IF                    U of Pittsburgh
 8. Cory Doyne, P                    Land O'Lakes HS, FL
 9. Eric Bruntlett, IF               Stanford U
10. Nathan Nelson, 3B                U of Louisiana-Lafayette
11. Bob McCrory, P                   Columbus HS, Steens, MS
12. Ryan Hamilton, P                 U of San Diego
13. Anthony Acevedo, OF              Fresno State U
14. Anthony Angel, 2B                Loyola Marymount U
15. Todd Self, OF                    U of Louisiana-Lafayette
16. Monte Mansfield, P               Riverside CC
17. Ralph Hicks, P                   Centanary College
18. Eric Lee, RF                     U of Houston
19. Michael Bourn, OF                Nimitz HS, Humble, TX

[kevwun]

This move prevented the inevitable Pence/Lee collision.  Although those two may still find a way to pull it off. 

[Burzmali]

.340 in limited playing time in the majors, .377 in the minors.

Yeah..

I mean it could turn out to be a solid deal if he puts up .380 ish. The defense is obviously going to be alot better. I just dont know if giving up an elite closer and essentially downgrading the offense slightly was the best idea. The 3B prospect is interesting.


Still think Burke is going to break out in 08 if he gets a shot.  

[Jacksonian]

Astros 2000 draft....

You chose your first post to be material taken directly from AD.  Not exactly a great start out of the gate.